Okay. Just got back from seeing Prometheus on the IMAX screen, and there was a message from Jordan mentioning he'd seen it too. Time for some chatter!
Don't even click the comments if you want to see it fresh. I'm going to spoil the bejesus out of it.
42 comments:
1. I'd give it ***1/2, or ****1/2 if it was just down to the visuals and basic architecture of the story. There's some really good stuff here, and seeing it on IMAX had some awesome moments.
2. I have more postitive points to make, but on the flip side, holy CRAP am I on board with AC's assessment of the characters' behavior.
I read an article once about construction workers who worked around radioactive material in the desert in the 40's, and I've always recalled the account of a guy who stuck his arms shoulder-deep into a barrel of radioactive water, boasting "it doesn't do anything at all!" (Of course all those men later died of cancer.)
It is with the same ignorant abandon that this crew investigates humanity's first contact with extraterrestrial life. They take off their helmets, smear goo on their hands, hang out in a room in which goo is oozing out of hundreds of containers and pooling on the floor, until at one point the freaking biologist decides to fucking pet and alien lamprey eel that rises from the muck. Later on the ship, when some external monitors go out, their first move is to open the front door wide. When that reveals the contorted corpse of a comrade that somehow arrived on its own their next move is to go "huh" and "hey, come take a look at this."
3.The production design is downright perfect, both on board the Prometheus and on the planet.
And the movie opens with a series of breathtaking aerial landscapes, real ones, which was a very classy and profound way to tell a serious sci-fi story.
4. The script is needlessly childish, boilerplate action/sci-fi stuff. In addition to the characters' foolish plot-driving actions, the characterizations are a familiar hodgepodge of contentious, quirky stereotypes. You'd think that a shipful of scientists would not, upon spending two years asleep in space, arrive at their destination and immediately bitch and whine about the purpose of the trip, calling out the two main characters' ridiculous theory so they can all goggle appropriately when it turns out they're right. They're all getting paid, they're all scientists, it's a fucking expedition into the unknown and they won't shut up about their time being wasted. Pointless.
4a. In addition to that, there's an alleged theme of faith vs. a lack of faith and one's relationship to one's creator that is so flimsy and underdeveloped I hardly saw the point of it.
One aspect that made no sense was Charlie Holloway's peevish despondency that there were no living aliens to talk to. He's an archeologist that just proved himself pretty much the best archeologist ever with a find of incomprehensible fascination, and his response is to get all emo and drink. It's like a paleontologist who keeps getting pissy that there aren't any live dinosaurs to see.
The other wince-inducing aspect was the clunky way in which the existence of David the artificial life form would get drawn into this discussion, pretty much ending with "well I'm a human and you're a robot, so nyah."
4b. Another moment I found awkward was when the two co-pilots are sitting in the cockpit looking out the window at the huge building their crewmates are exploring. It could have been a supremely evocative quiet moment, except for the overworn back and forth banter about a bet they made earlier. It was one of several moments in which the movie could have hit a beat of real quality cinema, like a really iconic moment, but missed it instead.
4c. Charlize Theron saying "Father" was so damn obvious and ponderous. "Dad" would've been so much better, a shot for some real emotion.
5. Despite all that, in general the performances are really great. It can be hard to notice when the words coming out of the characters' mouths are taking you out of the movie so often, but the actors all do a very good job at making them genuine and interesting. Noomi Rapace, Charlize Theron and especially Michael Fassbender all stand out.
7. The revelation that the original Space Jockey from Alien was actually a huge human-looking dude wearing a helmet is AWESOME. Perhaps the best thing about the whole movie, and the kind of thing all prequels wish they could pull off.
I've always liked the moment in the '88 remake of The Blob in which the meteor the blob arrived in is revealed to be a man-made satellite. I like it because it suggests that the meteor in the original movie was a satellite, too. I mean, it doesn't really, but I've always loved the creepy romance of that possibility.
Prometheus actually does that, take a piece of film history and reveal something amazing about it so that it's suddenly always been there, lurking. And it's in no way cheap or cynical. It's integral to the larger story and it's a damn good idea.
8. The Engineers were very, very cool. The notion of a truly ancient space-faring race creating us and doing who knows what else over the vastness of space and time really worked, really resonated. The fact that they were big versions of us was perfect.
8a. Also perfect was how the Engineer had absolutely zero to say to anyone, and just started killing and getting on with his business.
9. More plot bitching. Things that don't make sense after you know all the secrets.
So the aliens tell our ancestors about how to get to... their secret military research base? Why is that exactly? Since the reveal is that 2,000 years ago they were about to pack up, head to Earth and wipe us all out, how does that reconcile with the maps in the caves? Was that plan B, planned as early as 35,000 years ago? What if they changed their minds about killing us?
Similarly, once I know David's plan is to find a way that the Engineers can save Old Man Weyland, his actions with the killer goo don't really read. He knows something killed the mighty Engineers, it would make sense to find out if it's the glop all over the place before you start feeding it to people and seeding women with aliens. How is a rampaging squid baby going to help his boss?
(Okay, that one's not so bad. It kinda makes sense that he'd try some reckless experiments with whatever tools presented themselves, but it seems like the same kind of sloppy behavior as the others.)
9a. Charlize Theron actually goofs in the same way as countless cartoon bad guys, in that she tries to outrun something falling on her instead of moving out of the way. And you could say "But it's so big" or whatever but the tactic I'm suggesting is exactly what Shaw does, and she has time to do it even after she falls down.
10. I wish some of the shots of Prometheus in flight were longer, if even just by half a second. It seemed like they would cut just when I was getting a bead on what I was looking at (not all the time, but a lot). The moment of collision was especially disappointing, coming as it did when the Prometheus was already inside the horseshoe shape of the Engineer ship.
11. I guess I didn't really see the point of the proto-xenomorph (the Alien alien) at the end. While the lethal perfection of the xenomorph makes sense as an engineered life form, especially one made by the ancient and terrifying Engineers, I prefer it as a product of evolution. Mostly because I like the xenomorph as a fixed (series of) organism(s), rather than the potentially shape-shifting product of the protean goo. Maybe it's too close to Alien: Resurrection for my taste.
But more it's this: faults aside, Prometheus really does manage to make good as a companion to Alien, taking place in the same universe and offering an idea (and nemesis) that is interesting and worthy, using the history but making it new at the same time. Leaving the xenomorph out of it was a good idea; tacking it on the end (sort of) is the stuff of countless bad prequels.
"It is with the same ignorant abandon that this crew investigates humanity's first contact with extraterrestrial life. They take off their helmets, smear goo on their hands, hang out in a room in which goo is oozing out of hundreds of containers and pooling on the floor, until at one point the freaking biologist decides to fucking pet and alien lamprey eel that rises from the muck. Later on the ship, when some external monitors go out, their first move is to open the front door wide. When that reveals the contorted corpse of a comrade that somehow arrived on its own their next move is to go "huh" and "hey, come take a look at this."
Exactly! Why send a bunch on unprofessional idiots on such an expensive/important expedition? There are so many examples of characters behaving stupidly. Would people really be getting drunk while situated on far away alien world while bad stuff is happening? Would people really disobey orders such as taking one's helmet off when told not to? Will people really still be smoking in the year 2094 - especially on a space expedition?
"You'd think that a shipful of scientists would not, upon spending two years asleep in space, arrive at their destination and immediately bitch and whine about the purpose of the trip, calling out the two main characters' ridiculous theory so they can all goggle appropriately when it turns out they're right. They're all getting paid, they're all scientists, it's a fucking expedition into the unknown and they won't shut up about their time being wasted. Pointless."
My father made the exact same observation. Would you really spend a trillion dollars for an expedition only to hire lower class people who bicker and challenge the mission? The people acted like they had never met before - really?! I could go on but Ocot, you hit it on the head with all of your points.
12. More amateurishness: The two guys who get left behind because they got lost, when they have radios and detailed-3D-map-making robot balls. They had cameras on their suits transmitting to the ship (other than the ones on their helmets, which they took off and left somewhere), and the whole business with the storm happens before anyone even notices they're not coming back.
13. The approach of the storm was truly awesome. Very fun to see on the IMAX screen.
14. Here's the best action performed by a character in this movie, a balm for all the bad moves: when disease-ridden Holloway breaks away from the group and tells Charlize to set him on fire. The second best action is that she does it. That's the way to be when you're in outer space, kiddos.
15. Here's the ending I would've liked better: Shaw tells David to fInd the Engineer home world not to ask them questions, but to nuke their planet with a shipful of monster plague DNA.
A prime example of the unprofessional nature of the crew; After bringing the head of one of the engineers aboard, the scientists take very few steps to protect themselves from possible contamination (in fact, this is a problem prevalent in Prometheus). As they are poking around the head, which ultimately leads to it exploding, the chief scientist of the mission is seen in the background sitting on a counter without any sort of “protection” while getting drunk on a bottle of wine; stuff like that makes me mental. Can you imagine Neil Armstrong getting loaded while cracking open moon rocks?
I thought the same thing, know how rigid our own screening process is for astronauts. They go through so many test to secure that they are psychologically and physically sound before going anywhere. There were a whole lot of psychological issues with this crew.
What is happening in the opening scene of the film? Is this the creation of humans on Earth?
Why does David poison Holloway?
The bummer is that the head exploding scene actually has notes of genuine nihilism, finding the decapitated head of a god-like alien only to have it explode, but again these beats are missed because of the details you guys mention.
Yes, JPX, I took that scene to be an Engineer sacrificing himself to kickstart life on Earth. I think the big ship is leaving. I wonder if the stuff he drinks is meant to be the exact same stuff that causes all the trouble on the planet billenia later, or if it's a weaponized, "evil" version that they find.
I find myself a little disappointed at the loose catalog of effects the evil goop has. Lampreys, little eye tentacles, acid blood, turning that tattooed geologist into an ugly rage monster. Why does that eel thing crawl into the guy's mouth and then just hang out in there? It's not really consistent.
I think David poisons Holloway because he's been instructed to try whatever he can to get things going and he's no more cautious than the rest of the crew.
16. The scene in which Shaw gives herself a caesarian was incredible. Kind of like what Kane from Alien wished he could have done.
That scene you refer to so tense! It's the best sequence I've seen in a film in a long time. Of course, after that she ran and jumped around as if it never happened but still, cool.
Octo, I'm in a familiar position with regard to yours: 1) I can't really disagree with any of your complaints, but 2) Holy Mother of God did I adore this movie, so much that I just can't bring myself to care about any of the objections.
In a world where we've been given The Phantom Menace and The Godfather Part III, this was a fucking miraculous achievement. Immediately one of my favorite sci-fis ever.
I divide the aforementioned "objections" (the ones I conceded) into two categories: 1) bad character behavior and 2) weird ambiguities. As far as 1), yeah...it's too bad. The movie is marred. But, again, as "marring of fantasy/sci-fi movies" goes, it just feels minor to me compared to all the years and years of post-Alien dreck I've seen. And, as far as 2), I embrace all those ambiguities as wonderful, wonderful H.R. Gieger/Kurbrick-style gloriousness. You understand: I fucking hate "We really all come from space aliens" stories. I hate all of them, all the way up to the Battlestar Galactica reboot. Prometheus is literally the only one I've ever liked.
I'll elaborate just a bit: In Alien, Ash's decapitated head lectures them: "You still don't understand what you're dealing with, do you? The perfect organism." (Ash, of course, is the company plant.)
Now we know not only that Nostromo's secret mission to LV-426 was a direct result of Prometheus' mission to LV-223 (both in Zeta II Reticuli, with its ringed outer planet), but that the whole fucking thing is because Weyland personally wanted eternal life! Like in Blade Runner (where some cuts have Batty saying "I want more life, father" -- the overdub is "fucker"), where the corporation's eponymous founder says "Commerce is our business; 'More Human Than Human' is our motto" -- the themes of Darwinism, Capitalism and Creationism are woven together perfectly.
And for those of you who suspect I might be overreacting in response to an initial flush of excitement, I have one word for you: Avatar.
I still don't understand your hatred for Avatar. I loved it in 3D and saw it twice. It might be a silly, familiar story but I was entranced by it.
I'm so bummed the official version of that line isn't "fucker" anymore. One of my favorite cinematic swears ever.
I totally understand, Jordan, how and why you can get past the film's list of flaws; in many ways it is the unexpected inhertitence of the older, more mature sci-fi vibe that you like, and I see the flaws as coming from the inferior vibe that took its place. The good stuff is so good that this really could have been an instant classic, a genuinely iconic piece of science fiction -- otherwise I wouldn't have stayed up so late gabbing about it.
I missed that it's the same solar system! That's interesting, although it implies some plot holes (like why not just go back to the alien ship parking lot on 223 instead of the ditch where one of them crashed on 426, but I'm splitting hairs).
The mysterious absences in the story (combined with the overwhelming, spectacular beauty of the movie) fit together into something that, for me, makes this movie waht you said: an instant sci-fi classic.
With my previous examples (Phantom Menace, Godfather III) and with Star Trek The Motion Picture (i.e. the last one before they fired Roddenberry) you see what I regard as an inevitable process wherein the original visionary drowns in the ocean of his own middle-aged lameness and the new vibe that's supplanted the vast world of possibilities that he himself created and made possible. I think that this is such an inevitable, unavoidable, corrosive process (in rock'n'roll and painting and literature as well as in movies) that I reiterate my original point: Prometheus is a fucking miraculous achievement. When you take into account the fact that Ridley Scott's entire post-Alien/Blade Runner career has been so spotty, it's even more miraculous.
JPX, I can endeavor to explain, but I have trouble getting beyond just lamely repeating how awful Avatar is to me, from the moment it starts, with every attempted viewing.
I can refer you back to my Horrorthon post, reprinted on my own website.
(Why link to me rather than Horrorthon? Because my site is searchable, because I made it myself...suckers!)
I disagree with Jordan at times, but he's spot on here - Avatar was awful. But, back to Prometheus...
I loved it. I was annoyed at the flaws Octo describes in such detail, but then I found myself making excuses for the flaws as well.
The complete idiocy of the geologists who, upon finding evidence of alien life say within 5 minutes, "I'm going back to the ship", but get lost in the process. That really strained the film's credibility, but I suppose with such a backstory, they were a little too forceful in moving from discovery of the pods to the problems they presented.
See, I'm just making excuses. I'm sure the writers could have come up with a way for the aliens to wreak havoc for entertainment without such one-dimensional supporting characters.
Separate note - Noomi Rapace. Loved her in all the "Girl With..." films and glad to see she could pull off the English blockbuster bit.
Anyway, I hope it does well enough to get a sequel made. I'd love to see what happens when Shaw and an android land on a planet of engineers. Isn't that peculiar - I hope this prequel gets a sequel. Prometheus is a prequel to Alien, but Alien is not really a sequel to prometheus.
It's like Prometheus has two children - the Alien films, then the potential Prometheus sequel.
Okay, I'm done.
I'm with you, Trevor!
BTW, JPX, I just re-read my Avatar take-down (linked above) (which I hadn't actually looked at since 2010) and I stand by every word. If you really want to know why I hate the movie (and you didn't read it before), that's the place to go.
I thought that there were too many examples of humans acting stupidly for me to fully embrace this film and if you can shred Avatar you can certainly do the same with Prometheus. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed it and I thought it had some standout sequences but with scene after scene of humans drinking, smoking pot, fucking, taking off their helmets, disobeying orders, fighting, touching things (including space monsters), etc while they were dealing with a very scary, mysterious situation my enjoyment diminished as I found myself increasingly annoyed. I can overlook some of this stuff some of the time but Prometheus was replete with it. If you are going to spend 3 trillion dollars to fund a space mission I can't imagine that you wouldn't hire more professional people and put them through some rigorous psychological testing beforehand. These characters are unlikable and it is completely unrealistic to believe that they would be hired to be on mankind's most important mission. I agree with Octo's ***1/2 star rating.
It irritates me that you would even consider putting Prometheus and Avatar in the same paragraph, let alone the same category. Prometheus, flaws and all, is an ambitious work of cinematic art; Avatar is a cheesy pop confection. Prometheus is like a German Expressionist painting; Avatar is like a Norman Rockwell illustration.
But remember I had the same reaction to Aliens (compared to Alien). I was like, "What the hell is this?
A masterpiece has been turned into a fucking comic book." I knew we were in trouble from "There goes our salvage" at the beginning; by the time Bill Paxton was making his "She thought they meant 'illegal alien'" joke (under that cheeseball television lighting, after the exquisite RSO-quality acting and photography in Alien I was horrified.
For heaven's sake, Prometheus takes the Freudian undertones from Alien (which Aliens and the others ignore) and makes them overtones, taking the Darwinian/Marxist/Feminist agendae from Scott's first movie and welding them to a neo-creationist framework that ties the existing id-monsters and corporate protagonists together into a new "Lazarus" myth about genetics and immortality. It's mind-blowing (and as beautiful as a Vermeer). And there aren't any day-glo flowers or blue people with big noses.
Don't get me wrong: I like Aliens -- it's really great sci-fi; some of the best ever (for many reasons, the first of which is probably Sigourney Weaver's incredible performance). I've come to genuinely appreciate it as a premier action movie and as a supremely well-done and well-told sci-fi saga.
But Alien is something special. Not counting Star Wars (which is its own force of nature) I can only think of three sci-fi movies ever that are that good, and Ridley Scott made two of them. (Kubrick made the third.)
I like the Terminator movies too! Great stuff (and great sci-fi). I could watch the opening half hour and the closing twenty minutes of T2 over and over a dozen times without getting bored. I just hate Avatar.
Also (assuming everybody here did the right thing and hit the IMAX):
Anyone else think the Hobbit 3D looks really bad? Like, View-Master bad?
(I'm referring solely to the 3D effect itself; the movie looks great.)
Prometheus was, by the way, the best 3D I've ever seen. (Beating out Tintin, my previous favorite.)
You know what was awesome?
2010.
(puts cap back on gasoline can, steps away)
"My God...it's full of CRAP!"
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