A whole bunch of stupefied guys who just saw Avatar
(2009) **
[UPDATED BELOW]
1) I didn’t like Avatar
I didn’t like Avatar. However I am not here to start a fight. I’m not indignant or resentful or marginalized or offended or anything like that. I just didn’t like it...I found it dull. My posting here is based on the idea that anyone else on Horrorthon would want to continue reading me on the topic of Avatar even after I’ve announced that I didn’t like it. This, obviously, is not a sure thing. If you’re already furious, maybe you should stop reading; if, on the other hand, you can deal with the fact that we disagree over this movie, the topic could remain interesting.
2) There was nothing wrong with my glasses
Yes, I had a flawless 3D IMAX experience. This is always the first guess when somebody has a lousy time at a 3D movie: maybe my lenses were scratched or I was sequestered to the far edge of the screen or something. But, no: we were pretty much in the ideal top-center seats, and the 3D effects weren’t remotely blurry or disorienting; it was instantly possible to resolve everything I saw. So you can’t blame my glasses.
3) There’s nothing wrong with the 3D in general
Cameron is extremely aggressive in his 3D directing (as has been discussed elsewhere); he is nearly always attacking all four edges of the screen with some protruding or constricting surface. He’s not concerned with how disorienting that can be (he likes how disorienting it is, obviously; he wants you forcibly “decoupled” from the IMAX frame and into a non-constricted viewing mode.) It’s very different from Zemeckis, who’s much more interested in negative depth and only occasionally protrudes out of the screen (and always always in the middle rather than the edges). It’s a very kinetic, busy technique, but there’s nothing wrong with it.
4) The story doesn’t make sense
Everything seems to be happening right now, unleashing overwhelming pressures on both sides, but I can’t figure out why. Sam Worthington is hardly the first to use the Avatar program; it’s been going on for years (apparently). And the Unobtanium is nothing new. But, suddenly, everything’s going to come to a big global confrontation. Why? I legitimately don’t get it. It’s like Michelle Rodriquez never noticed what her job was.
5) The Na’vi are silly
I just don’t care at all about the Na’vi because they are very silly, and their society has been worked out in the same kind of laborious "depth" as the Lion King world, which at least had loveable anthropomorphic heroes and villains. Are they “good”? Yeah, I guess. They’re “well done,” whatever that means. (I’ll tell you what it means: it means that if such creatures actually existed, according to all the arcane rules which Mr. Cameron made up on the back of a spiral notebook, then they would certainly look and sound as they do in this movie. Is this good? Is this an achievement that means anything to me? No, because I’m reasonably sure that I’ve found dwarves, elves, hobbits, Puppeteers (and other arcane silver-age sci-fi creatures) likeable and interesting because of the complexity and the depth of the stories they’re enmeshed in, and the Na’vi, by contrast, are just extremely silly.
6) So what are Sam and Sigourney and Michelle going to do?
This is a very big question for people who enjoyed Avatar but I could not get interested in it, not because I have some attitude about it but because I have the same issue that many critics had with the Dan Quayle/Murphy Brown imbroglio twenty years ago: You can ask about Murphy Brown’s baby, but since there is no baby, the answers are of limited interest. Similarly, you can wonder about how to solve the Na’vi’s problem (and they really do have a serious problem, up there with the whales’ problem in our world, or the Elves’ problem in Tolkien), but since the Na’vi are completely imaginary and their plight has been made up, I just can’t get interested in how to save them from their dire circumstances. Cameron seems to feel that a sufficiently complex and realistic portrayal of an intelligent alien race getting threatened with cultural extinction is all I need in order to be emotionally and intellectually committed, as if the complexity of his hypothetical situation is impressive in and of itself. It’s like watching Star Trek: Insurrection…it’s the same deep, deep, deep level of nerdliness. They actually want me to mull over what these people need to do, morally, according to a very detailed presentation of the ethical environment that has been invented by the writer for this purpose. How can they navigate these complex dilemmae? They’re trapped in a “problem story,” that’s all. There’s no way out except a series of big bangs.*
7) There’s nothing wrong with the vehicles, spacecraft, weapons, computers, machines
All that stuff is fine, and most of of it is superb. If I collected paintings or miniatures, I would be obsessed with the stuff in Avatar. All the twelve-foot-diameter wheels and weathered matal surfaces were great. All the vistas were great, too.
8) I wasn’t crazy about the wildlife
As much as I loved the technology, all the plants and etc. were a bit much and were very tiring and intrusive. The red creature that Sam Worthington rides at the end wore out its welcome particularly quickly. All those luminous globe-like plants, etc., were very pretty, but, again, what am I looking at? Is this Fantasia or is this supposed to be a real place? And wouldn’t a real place be more interesting?
9) Bad characters, bad dialogue
I tried to pin down the motivational and plot-related issues above, but I may have sounded more involved and interested than I actually was. The fact is, there was really never a single moment in the movie in which I was engaged in Sam Worthington’s story or his relationships with the Na’vi and the humans. It just wasn’t remotely interesting, because the special moment of me learning why anybody cares about the story of what happened to the Na’vi (which was supposed to occur at some point after the lights went down) just never happened. I can’t decide if Sigourney is supposed to be committed to the Na’vi culture or cynically willing to exploit them. Like all the main characters, she seems to have all the positions at once, with no sense of how those positions conflict or fill the basic situations of their lives with constant, totally contradictory obligations. It’s not really a situation the characters are involved in or dealing with: it’s a seminar they’re holding, while having agreed to attack each other at the same time.
10) Who cares?
That’s what Avatar comes down to. What’s the point of all this? Do I “appreciate” what “he” did? I guess, the way that I can appreciate the “highest point west of the Mississippi” or somebody who’s got to conduct all nine Beethoven symphonies or perform every Shakespeare speaking role, or catalog all of the Sherlock Holmes cases, or learn Elvish, or design imaginary cars. Yes, if this particular situation existed, these would be the issues, and these would be the machines, and these might ultimately be the big fights that would erupt. It’s a sci-fi sociology experiment, for extra credit. But with all the “relevance” of the Unobtanium and the purported “meaning” of the Na’vi sacrifices (or their elaborate, made-up rituals), I just couldn’t figure out why I was supposed to be, you know, interested. Like I said at the top, I don’t have a problem with this kind of sci-fi story. I just think the Na’vi are really silly.
UPDATE: The "Problem Story"
I want to elaborate on the movie's "moral" pretensions because there's a specific, very arch implication here that I do not like. Because of my desultory attitude, I am presumably "overlooking" the value that that Cameron's story has in a present-day, real-world context. In other words, Avatar is striking at a real target beyond its arcana, and I "must" acknowledge the applicability of its story to today's reality. The problem is that I don't want to do that, because the correlation is very coarse and juvenile and the implied conclusions are simplistic. Is it difficult to think of examples of "exploited natives" through history? Of course not; it's probably the most thuddingly obvious human imperialistic behavior since the invention of trade and shipping. Are there real ethical questions at play; degrees to which commercial interests can maintain a greater sensitivity to the cultures they're exploiting? Of course, but I don't think James Cameron has anything to say about it or can help us (through the force of his art) to wrestle with it, because he' simplifying the principle to archetypal rudiments. He thinks that abstracting the crime makes it "unanswerable," profound; he thinks we need his thought experiment to confront our reality. And science fiction has risen to this kind of challenge many times over the decades. But does anybody really think that this story about imaginary blue people is going to improve anyone's thinking about oil fields, farming, pollutants in the Hudson river, or any kind of industrial or cultural exploitation? Is James Cameron here to clear that issue up for us? Because, you know, "The Lorax" was for kids. I'm not being snide on purpose; I'm trying to acknowledge that the "Avatar" twist on the strip-mining story (the "get your legs back" part of the game) is the one legitimately new idea in here; the one element that could turn the fable into something with a greater resonance or contemporary depth...but it doesn't, because (unlike Spielberg or Ridley Scott or even George Lucas) Cameron doesn't understand how stories guide us to contemplate ideas. Kipling sent Kurtz after ivory; Mexican gold, Asian spices, etc. etc. It's an entire universe of storytelling dimensionality and meaning, but in this movie it's just items on a bulletin board.
15 comments:
Jordan, I actually agreed with just about everything you have there. I think you covered the generalities and a lot of the specifics about what wasn't great and what just flat out didn't work. I have a hard time believing this movie will be remembered for years unless it's just pushed forever by hollywood in endless iterations. Somehow I still enjoyed it though and felt the whole was better than the sum of the... well you know.
I felt like some of the dialogue was so bad and disjointed that I was watching something on the level of The Room instead of someone who had access to the best and brightest minds to edit and augment a script. Your comments on the creatures I think is valid too, I found a few of them interesting but overall little too much of Cameron trying to control too much.
I don't think your glasses worked, you should try it again with some that do. ;)
1. What? You didn't like Avatar? You fool!
2. What? There was nothing wrong with your glasses? You fool!
3. Interesting point. When I wrote my review, I was bitching about various elements I called "blurry." I was using the wrong word, what I was experiencing was strobing. And it was always when JC was un-Zemeckisly cramming the edges of frame with a bunch of depth.
I had a conversation today with a friend who, like me, is extrememly skeptical of the hype surrounding 3D. You refer to Cameron's efforts towards "forcibly 'decoupling' viewers from the IMAX frame and into a non-constricted viewing mode" (I'm not quoting you exactly). That's precisely the hype I don't buy, and something came up today that clarified it for me: movies are already a pretty immersive experience, before you add 3D to them.
4. You have a point. My first thought was to mention the weird sign from the tree god as some sort of answer, and then I realized that was just serving the same trope: The stuff that happens happens because it's in the script.
5. That makes sense, too. If the story doesn't work for you, the main characters' fictional shtick isn't going to either.
6. Hmm. Part of this is an extension of your dislike of Cameron's narrative and artistic choices, and how that failed to draw you in the movie, that part I get.
What I have a problem with is "since the Na’vi are completely imaginary and their plight has been made up, I just can’t get interested in how to save them from their dire circumstances." How can that be the actual criteria if Tolkien's elves' problems do get you interested? They're no less fictional than the Na'vi. I know Cameron's not Tolkien and elves in folklore predate Tolkien by centuries, but they still have the same level of non-fictionality, which is zero. This resonates with something coming up in #8.
7. Yes, good stuff.
8. Some of the creature designs left me a little cold, and your big red bird comment made me laugh. But the flora and the forest in general blew me away. There's that one shot when the three Na'vi initiates are walking across the twisted roots that stretch from one edge of the screen to the other, backed only by sky. I thought that was one of those sci-fi novel covers made real, like a moving Michael Whelan painting.
Anyway, I get that you didn't feel that way, but then I read this: "Is this Fantasia or is this supposed to be a real place? And wouldn’t a real place be more interesting?"
What are you talking about? I can't believe you called me out for decrying the basis of horror narrative (see the discussion about Frozen) and then got mad at a science fiction movie for taking place on another planet.
Again, I get it, you didn't like the setting. But seriously, what "real place?"
9. I didn't think these were as bad as all that, but I didn't think they were good as much as adequate to the task, which is all I will bother to muster in their defense.
10. I thought this point and the thing you said at the very end of the next were the clearest; this movie completely failed to engage you in any of the spots it might have hooked. Who cares, indeed. While I'm sure my positive review featured somewhere in the disappointment, I at least hope I wasn't, you know, misleading.
UPDATE. I like the last line of this: "It's an entire universe of storytelling dimensionality and meaning, but in this movie it's just items on a bulletin board."
It works for me because it concisely underscores Cameron's innate immaturity as an artist, comprising all his choices, big or small.
You seem awful steamed about how you're being force-fed respect for this movie's message. I don't think Cameron has any lessons to teach the world about cultural and ecological preservation either, and I kind of thought we all saw this coming from the very first trailer.
Are people really posturing like this, spouting off about the plight of blue people everywhere? I haven't been paying attention. If they are, that's just plain silly. I guess that's the kind of stupid we can expect surrounding the second highest grossing movie ever.
Again I will say that this was the most visually stunning film I;'ve ever seen. The 3D experience for me was wonderful. The first time someone stood up in the foreground of the film I almost said, "hey, sit down" then quickly realized it was in the film.
That said, this does not mean I didn't have a a few minor issues with it. You bring up some very valid points but I have to ask if you might have gone into it expecting too much. I went in expecting to be visually amazed but also expecting nothing great from the plot. Therefore, the Fern Gully story line was not disappointing just pretty much what I expected.
The issue I had was this, if everything on Pandora is connected to each other and every living thing plays a part in that then how much crap did they already destroy to make that huge military base and why is there no mention of that? Did they just happen to find the one dead area on this living planet and build there? And if the scientists are so hell bent on preserving the planet why don't they have any problem setting up shop in this base? Maybe I'm just nitpicking but it really bothered me.
What bothered Tony had to do with the air ships. Here is his point: If it took 2 counter rotating fans to lift the small helicopters how is it possible that only 4 of these fans could raise the huge gun ship. It's just not feasible.
I like that you keep bringing up Fern Gully (here and in that other post). Of all the cheesy enviro-flicks to compare Avatar to, it's the silliest.
Okay, I'm just going to risk embarrassing myself and ask a question about this line: "Kipling sent Kurtz after ivory; Mexican gold, Asian spices, etc. etc."
Kipling never actually sent Kurtz anywhere, right? But you're not confusing Kipling and Joseph Conrad, you're invoking the whole history of colonial literature with a couple deft strokes, what the kids these days might call a "mash-up." Right? Anyway, it's more power to the closing of the article.
Yeah, I wasn't being particularly careful.
My point about Avatar purported moral complexity needs to be made more clear.
It's not about what I'm "expecting" or "objecting to." It's more like, it this all there is? Like, in general, ever? You see something in the real world; you come up with a fictionalized hypothetical version that gets across the idea in a universalized, romantic, simplified fashion; now you tell that story with the appropriate emotional tonalities. Isn't that what The Crucible or The Wizard of Oz or The Lord of the Rings or Animal Farm or 1984 or Blade Runner did?
But every one of those examples is compelling for reasons that seem to go beyond the
Go beyond the what? Omigod, what happened?
Jordan~for some reason when you said "is that all there is?" it made me think of this Peggy Lee song of the same title. Sorry, not enough sleep last night and my mind is all over the place today :)
Why you gotta hate America like that Jordan? Frankly I think you're sending a poor message to the troops.
Personally I was completely engrossed in the Avatar world. (Perhaps in a Lion King way but engrossed nonetheless.) The 3D knocked my socks off. I've seen it twice and I'd gladly see it again in the theater but I've vowed to NEVER watch it on a television set.
As for the clunky dialog, lack of intellectual stimulation, moral value, silly Na'vi and nonsensical plot - *shrugs* I was too busy enjoying myself to notice.
I love the picture by the way and I laughed hard at "What’s the point of all this? Do I “appreciate” what “he” did? I guess, the way that I can appreciate the “highest point west of the Mississippi”.
I definitely agree with all your points Jordan - well, at least the ones where I understood what you were referring to. If anything, I think you may be giving the plot more credit than it's worth. From my perspective, this story had all the depth of an episode of the Smurfs. Someone's in trouble, a smurf makes a mistake, it all works out in the end. Stretching this to 2 hours, 41 minutes, was a little painful.
Visually stunning? Yes. Transformers 2 was sort of pretty to watch as well, but that story was so disjointed and cliched that nobody went to see it. Oh, wait.
Funny, the two highest grossing films of the year were both built entirely on special effects and plots meant for adolescents.
Diatribe: The movie is getting so much press because of its high grosses. Nobody seems to be mentioning that so much of that is inflated by the 3-d factor. My wife and I saw this film in England (where we only saw it because in Stratford everything closed at 4pm), and in addition to the 8 pound admission price, there was a 2 pound surcharge for the film being 3-d, then a 1 pound purchase price for the glasses. So, all together, we spent about 35 dollars, just to see the movie. That wasn't even Imax. I'm pretty sure that's the most I've ever paid for admission to a movie.
That's pretty steep Trevor, I'm lucky my son works at the theater so we got to go for free, 3D glasses and all :)
Jordan, I just remembered - I thought about you while I was watching this movie. I know, that sounds kind of weird, but hear me out...
I remember you writing that when you saw Alien 3, you remarked that after 12 years, you finally had a sequel to Alien.
I thought of that because while watching Avatar, with all the similarities to Aliens, I started thinking that after 23 years, James Cameron finally made a sequel to Aliens.
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